Alternative History: Should Elizabeth II Have Been Elizabeth III?

Anonymous Unknown author, Public domain [PD-US-expired] , via Wikimedia Commons

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Due to recent events (as in the death of Queen Elizabeth II), I am going to swerve a little bit away from Elizabeth Woodville, back to her daughter, Elizabeth of York. As previously discussed in past blog posts (AKA Elizabeth of York: The KISS Edition and Did Elizabeth of York and Henry VII Have a Happy Marriage), many considered Elizabeth of York to be Edward IV’s heir, especially with the disappearance of the Princes of the Tower. However, she was relegated to the position of Queen Consort to Henry VII. So, here is the million-dollar question: should Elizabeth of York been the first Queen Elizabeth to rule in her own right, making the now late Queen Elizabeth II actually Elizabeth III?

In An Ideal World…

Yes. Elizabeth of York had the best claim to the throne. Full stop. Many of Henry VII’s supporters were actually Elizabeth of York’s supporters. It was his promise to marry Elizabeth of York that made him more eligible to the English throne than his own bloodline.

Henry VII’s primary claim to the throne (despite being the nephew of Henry VI) was through his mother, Margaret Beaufort. Margaret Beaufort was the great-granddaughter of John of Gaunt, who was the son of Edward III and the father of Henry IV. She was descended from the side of the family that began as the illegitimate children of John of Gaunt and Kathryn Swynford who were then legitimized when John and Kathryn later married. By the end of the War of the Roses, despite being a woman (as everybody were sexist pigs back then) and a member of the Beaufort family, she had the most legitimate claim to the throne of the remaining Lancasters.

Two Potential Queens; One Throne

So pretty much, there were two women who had a claim to the throne (as Henry VII was basically Margaret’s proxy): Margaret Beaufort and Elizabeth of York. Out of the two of them, Elizabeth of York had the better claim. How could she not? The last three kings were her father, her brother, and her uncle. Margaret, on the other hand, was only a distant relative to the last Lancaster king, Henry VI. Her own claim was tenuous at best, much less her sons.

Elizabeth of York Should Have Been Elizabeth I

Despite being a woman, Elizabeth of York had the best claim to the throne after the death of Richard III. Two of the last three kings were in her immediate family and the other was her uncle. Henry VII was only able to gather enough support to launch a realistic campaign for the throne by promising to marry her. Not to mention, Henry VII knew that she had a better claim so he delayed their marriage and even her coronation after their marriage in order to assert his dominance. She was allowed very little power because her mere presence in the political arena was dangerous for Henry VII’s reign.

In conclusion, Elizabeth of York should have been Elizabeth I, the first Queen of England to rule in her own right. That would have made the late Elizabeth II actually Elizabeth III.

SOURCES

Link Disclaimer: Some links within this website may lead to other sites that we believe may be useful or informative. The Snarky History Nerd Blog does not incorporate any materials appearing in such linked sites by reference. These links to third party sites or information are not intended as, and should not be interpreted by you as, constituting or implying our endorsement, sponsorship, or recommendation of the third party information, products, or services found there. We do not maintain or control these sites and accordingly make no guarantee concerning the accuracy, reliability, or currency of the information found there.

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Author	Source Name
Alison Weir	The War of the Roses.
Alison Weir	Elizabeth of York: A Tudor and Her World.
Dan Jones	The War of the Roses: The Fall of the Plantagenets and the Rise of the Tudors.
Lisa Hilton	Queens Consort: England’s Medieval Queens from Eleanor of Aquitaine to Elizabeth of York.
Sarah Gristwood	Blood Sisters: The Women Behind the War of the Roses.
Roland Hui	The Turbulent Crown: The Story of the Tudor Queens.
Leanda de Lisle	Tudor: Passion. Manipulation. Murder. The Story of England’s Most Notorious Family.

June 15, 2022June 15, 2022

Did Elizabeth of York and Henry VII Have A Happy Marriage?

Image Attribution: Malden, Sarah, Countess of Essex (c. 1761-1838)[2][3], Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Dream Marriage or Hellish Nightmare?

In the last blog post, I questioned whether or not Elizabeth of York wanted to marry her uncle, Richard III. (You can check out that post by clicking here.) Today, I am focusing on Elizabeth of York’s relationship to her actual husband, Henry VII.

Way Too Many Problems to Overcome?

The marriage between Elizabeth and Henry VII began as solely a political marriage. Considering their marriage united the York and Lancaster families (who had been killing each other for several decades), there was definitely some major tension and distrust from the start (duh). It did not help that pretenders to the throne (Elizabeth’s “brothers” and “cousins”) starting popping up left and right. Elizabeth’s mother, Elizabeth Woodville, had a reputation for scheming. It was unclear whether or not Elizabeth Woodville was part of the plots, but her banishment from court soon after the first major pretender scandal was definitely a sore spot in Elizabeth of York’s and Henry VII’s marriage.

Another sore spot was Henry VII’s mother, Margaret Beaufort. Margaret devoted her life to ensuring her son’s heritage. While that was not always the English Throne, she was instrumental to his ascension to the throne (there is a reason why she is the #1 Kickass Women in the War of the Roses). She remained the primary female political figure throughout his reign, usurping the Queen’s typical role.

Who Has the Better Claim to the Throne: Henry or Elizabeth?

Henry VII was also very aware that Elizabeth was the reason he was able to take the throne. With her brothers presumed dead, Elizabeth was Edward IV’s heir. Regardless of how he came to power and what happened after he died, Edward IV was a beloved king. Many of Henry’s crucial supporters only joined his cause after he pledged to marry Elizabeth (because since she did not have a penis, she could not rule on her own). The assumption was that he and Elizabeth would be co-rulers or even worse, (in Henry’s eyes), Henry VII would rule in her right, not his own. This was unacceptable to Henry.

Metropolitan Museum of Art, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons

After Henry VII defeated Richard III at Bosworth, the next step was supposed to be his marriage to Elizabeth and their coronation. Henry stalled the marriage and made his own coronation the priority. Well after his ascension to the throne, under extreme pressure from Parliament, Henry finally married Elizabeth. This was critical to the Tudor propaganda that Henry was ruling in his own right. From the beginning of their marriage, every single action was politically calculated.

Trust: The Foundation of Marriage

Gaining Henry VII’s trust was likely one of the biggest challenges that Elizabeth faced in her marriage. Henry spent most of his childhood essentially in exile due to his blood relations to the Lancasters (even though everyone was related to everyone else anyway). His mere presence was a threat to the Yorkist regime, so he was constantly looking over his shoulder and expecting betrayal. Elizabeth, as the daughter of the great Yorkist king, Edward IV, was not trustworthy in his eyes. (To be fair, her father and uncle did steal his inheritance and try to get rid of him). Even if Henry ever trusted Elizabeth personally, he clearly never trusted her politically as Margaret Beaufort held the Queen’s power throughout Henry’s reign.

Did Henry VII and Elizabeth Have a Happy Marriage?

Malden, Sarah, Countess of Essex (c. 1761-1838)[2][3], Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Despite all of the reasons why their marriage should have been unhappy, there were many indications that they developed a loving personal relationship. Elizabeth often joined him on his travels. They had multiple children. After Elizabeth’s early death (likely due to complications with childbirth), Henry’s became more cold and calculating. In fact, the almost cruel, tight-fisted reputation that Henry VII is associated with came about after her death. While he was never a very emotional man, he definitely changed with her death.

There was one story that gives us a peek into what their relationship was like behind closed doors. Prince Arthur, the Crown Prince, died suddenly in his teenage years. Henry received the news first and immediately went to Elizabeth. Once he found her, he broke down in tears as he told her the news. She comforted him, acting as the strong one in the situation. He calmed down and went back to his kingly duties. Elizabeth kept it together until he left but then she broke down as well. She was so distraught that one of her ladies-in-waiting went to fetch the king. Henry immediately stopped what he was doing and rushed to her side. This time, he was the one who was comforting her.

For a couple that showed very little feeling for each other in public, this episode indicates that there was definitely a loving relationship between the two of them. Their story is no great love story; but there is a love story there.

Sources

Author	Source Name
Alison Weir	The War of the Roses.
Alison Weir	Elizabeth of York: A Tudor and Her World.
Dan Jones	The War of the Roses: The Fall of the Plantagenets and the Rise of the Tudors.
Lisa Hilton	Queens Consort: England’s Medieval Queens from Eleanor of Aquitaine to Elizabeth of York.
Sarah Gristwood	Blood Sisters: The Women Behind the War of the Roses.
Roland Hui	The Turbulent Crown: The Story of the Tudor Queens.
Leanda de Lisle	Tudor: Passion. Manipulation. Murder. The Story of England’s Most Notorious Family.

May 9, 2022June 20, 2022

Elizabeth of York: The KISS Edition

Image Attribution: After Meynnart Wewyck, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Similar to Catherine of Valois (See Catherine of Valois: The KISS Edition), Elizabeth of York is a largely forgotten queen who is essential to the rise of the Tudors.

Elizabeth of York: The Daughter of the War of the Roses

Elizabeth was the first born child of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville. From the moment of her birth, she was celebrated and treated as a national treasure. (I hope I am not the only who just had a flashback of Nicholas Cage pretending to be Indiana Jones). For the first few years of her life, Elizabeth led a charmed life. This, of course, did not last long.

When Elizabeth was four, Edward IV was overthrown by the Lancasters (in what I like to refer to as Warwick’s hissy fit). He forced to flee England and abandon his wife and children. A heavily pregnant Elizabeth Woodville sought sanctuary at Westminster Abbey for her and her daughters. While they resided in comfort, the royal family lived in fear that Warwick and the Lancasters would storm the Abbey to “take care of” (AKA murder) of them.

Protecting the Fam

One of the first things that Edward IV did, after he defeated the Lancasters, was to liberate his wife and children from sanctuary. From that point on, Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville took several steps to ensure their family’s safety. Henry VI “died of grief” (AKA murdered) and Margaret of Anjou was declawed by the deaths of her husband and her son. As George of Clarence (Edward IV’s brother and Elizabeth of York’s uncle) continued to commit treason, he was killed, likely on Edward IV’s orders. (As much as George was a turd, brothers killing brothers is never a good thing in the long run). With the obvious threats taken care of, Elizabeth and her family were safe and happy.

Uncle Dick Comes to Town

This all ended when Edward IV died unexpectedly when she was seventeen. Her twelve year old brother, Edward V, became king and her uncle Richard III became Lord Protector. Richard III hated the Woodvilles (especially the new Queen Dowager, Elizabeth Woodville) and sought to take power for himself. (The men in the York family literally destroyed each other and themselves over being the King of England. I would love to ask them if it was all worth it in the end). He took custody of Edward V and arrested Elizabeth of York’s maternal uncle and half-brother. This action sent Elizabeth and her immediate family once again into sanctuary (AKA a very long sleepover at church). Everything seemed to go downhill from there.

John Everett Millais, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

With complete control over Edward V and the Woodvilles powerless, Richard III quickly secured more power for himself. He conducted a coup, executed and exiled Edward V’s supporters (without a trial, which is a big no no even then), and forced the Queen Dowager to release Richard (Edward IV’s second son) into his custody. Once the two biggest threats to his power were under his control, Richard III made the ultimate power move. He revealed (around the same time that the Princes “disappeared”) that Edward IV had already been married when he married the Queen Dowager, making the Princes and Princesses illegitimate. Of course, there was only one witness (the priest who could not actually be considered a legal witness), the supposed first wife was dead, and apparently, George knew? (You know, the traitor brother who literally called Edward IV, his own brother, illegitimate to get more power. There is no way he would have sat on this information.)

Unknown author Unknown author, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Richard III’s rule was rocked with rebellion and instability. His treatment of Edward IV’s children enraged many English citizens. As hated as the Woodvilles were, Edward IV was beloved. Despite Richard’s scheme to delegitimize Elizabeth and her siblings, her brothers were still considered the rightful heirs. After it was largely accepted that they were dead (as if they needed more family murder in the York family), Elizabeth became the rightful heir to the throne. This is the reason why Henry VII and Elizabeth were betrothed multiple times before they eventually married and why there were rumors that Richard III sought to marry Elizabeth after Anne Neville’s death. (Incest. So much incest. I definitely just threw up at little in my mouth.)

And Now We Have… The Tudors?

Moving away from potential royal incestual marriages (still so gross), Henry VII defeated Richard III and became the first Tudor king of England. This should have been a glorious time for Elizabeth. After all, she was the reason he won. Most of Henry’s supporters only fought for him because he promised to marry Elizabeth (and not in the creepy uncle way that Richard III tried to do). While Elizabeth waited for Henry to set a wedding date so that they could be crowned as King and Queen of England together, Henry had other plans.

Henry wanted to rule in his own right, not based on his wife’s claim to the throne. So he put off the wedding. He had his coronation and began to rule England as a King alone. (While I can see his point, the massive fan of Elizabeth in me is enraged on her behalf.) He did this for so long that his supporters began to get nervous that he was not going to marry Elizabeth. Finally, he chose a wedding date and they got married. Elizabeth became pregnant and then Queen (and yes, it is supposed to be the other way around). And so began the Tudor age.

Marriages Don’t Magically Solve All of the Problems

Unfortunately, her marriage to Henry VII did not end the clashes between her family and her husband. Her aunt, Margaret of Burgundy, promoted two different pretenders, including one who claimed to be Elizabeth’s youngest brother, (which was such a dick move. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound). After one of these rebellions,, Henry VII may have forced the Queen Dowager to relinquish her lands and retire to an abbey. (Some say it was her choice while others say Henry forced her into it.) Henry VII stole some of Elizabeth and her sisters’ inheritance (besides the throne) and refused to provide doweries for them. Elizabeth ended up financially supporting her sisters throughout their adult years.

While their marriage did not miraculously heal the wounds that the War of the Roses caused, Henry and Elizabeth had a solid marriage. They had multiple children (which indicated an active sex life). Neither were overly affectionate towards each other in public (and Henry was a total Mama’s Boy); however, multiple sources indicate that they cared for and supported each other. In fact, Henry VII only developed his cold and controlling reputation after Elizabeth passed away.

For the most part, Elizabeth stayed away from politics. Whether or not this was her choice or she was sidelined by Margaret Beaufort (the #1 Badass, clink link for more info), we will probably never know. Regardless, she gave birth to multiple children, including the infamous Henry VIII, Queen Margaret Tudor of Scotland and Queen Mary Tudor of France. Her main contribution politically was negotiating marriages for her children. While she worked with Margaret on these negotiations, Elizabeth made sure that she had a voice in who daughter- and son-in-laws would be.

At the end of the day, Elizabeth of York was critical to English history despite being overshadowed by her mother and mother-in-law. She was the Daughter of the War of the Roses and the first Tudor Queen.

Links Disclaimer: Some links within this website may lead to other sites that we believe may be useful or informative. The Snarky History Nerd Blog does not incorporate any materials appearing in such linked sites by reference. These links to third party sites or information are not intended as, and should not be interpreted by you as, constituting or implying our endorsement, sponsorship, or recommendation of the third party information, products, or services found there. We do not maintain or control these sites and accordingly make no guarantee concerning the accuracy, reliability, or currency of the information found there.

Sources:

Author	Source Name
Alison Weir	The War of the Roses.
Mary McGrigor	The Sister Queens: Isabella & Catherine de Valois
Dan Jones	The War of the Roses: The Fall of the Plantagenets and the Rise of the Tudors.
Lisa Hilton	Queens Consort: England’s Medieval Queens from Eleanor of Aquitaine to Elizabeth of York.
Erin Lawless	Forgotten Royal Women: The King and I
Dan Jones	The Plantagenets: The Warrior Kings and Queens Who Made England

May 1, 2022March 29, 2023

The Unexpected Legacy of Catherine of Valois

During the Medieval Period, royal women are often remembered as the “Daughter of…” or the “Mother of…” (because, of course, their value is based on the men in their lives). If we look at Catherine of Valois from that perspective, she is a pretty average royal medieval woman. She was the Daughter of Charles VI, Queen Consort of Henry V, Mother of Henry VI, and Grandmother of Henry VII. On its face, that legacy is very ordinary. It is the details that make her legacy extraordinary.

The Daughter, The Queen Consort, and The Mother

As the Daughter of Charles VI, she was raised by a Mad French King and a reviled Queen during a civil war and an English invasion (a traumatic childhood to say the least). While her reign as Queen Consort to Henry V was very short, Catherine literally made the English aristocracy’s dreams come true by bringing all of France as her dowry AND immediately got pregnant with the heir to the throne. Her time as Queen Mother was toxic (due to turds like Humphrey of Gloucester). While these things would make her an interesting woman to study, it is her final label that takes her legacy to a different level.

The Grandmother Through… The Tudors?

In a normal world, being the Grandmother of Henry VII would be expected. He was named after her husband and son. Plus, as Queen Mother, her grandson was expected to be her son’s heir. Henry VII was one of her son’s heir, but he was Edmund Tudor’s son, not Henry VI’s (cue the dramatic music).

Even though Catherine of Valois was his mother, Edmund Tudor was never in line for the throne. First off, his father, Owen Tudor, was Welsh. Not only was he Welsh, but Owen was the son of a Welsh rebel! Secondly, the marriage between Catherine and Owen was not entirely legal (because Humphrey of Gloucester was a vindictive asshole).

The Perks of Being Half-Brothers to the King

Upon Catherine’s death, no one could have predicted that her second son would be the father of a king. In fact, after Edmund’s own death, the idea that his son would one day be king was laughable. Henry VI and his own son, Edward of Lancaster, were alive and there were countless nobles who were ahead of Henry VII in the line of succession. Not to mention, Henry VII’s only claim to the throne (which was very very thin) was through his mother, Margaret Beaufort, not Edmund. Even though he was half-brother to the English King, Edmund himself was French and Welsh with literally no English royal descent.

The only reason Edmund was able to marry Margaret Beaufort (a rich heiress who was cousin to the king) was because he was Henry VI’s half-brother. While Catherine did not play a significant role in Henry VI’s life once he was removed from her household, Henry VI cared for his mother. He took care of his half-brothers, which led to Edmund’s marriage to Margaret. (That marriage is so fucking gross. She was way too young at 12, even for the time.) Essentially, the only reason why Henry VII existed is because of Catherine’s most scandalous choice: her marriage to Owen Tudor.

Catherine of Valois’s Legacy

One of the only times Catherine took control of her life (which frankly, she had very little agency for most of her life) was when she married Owen Tudor despite the fact that it was illegal. This moment of agency changed the course of history, although, those changes did not come to pass until well after her death. If Owen had married anyone else, Edmund would have not married Margaret and Henry VII would never have been born.

The world would be a very different place today without Catherine of Valois.

Disclaimer: Some links within this website may lead to other sites that we believe may be useful or informative. The Snarky History Nerd Blog does not incorporate any materials appearing in such linked sites by reference. These links to third party sites or information are not intended as, and should not be interpreted by you as, constituting or implying our endorsement, sponsorship, or recommendation of the third party information, products, or services found there. We do not maintain or control these sites and accordingly make no guarantee concerning the accuracy, reliability, or currency of the information found there.

Sources:

Author	Source Name
Alison Weir	The War of the Roses.
Mary McGrigor	The Sister Queens: Isabella & Catherine de Valois
Dan Jones	The War of the Roses: The Fall of the Plantagenets and the Rise of the Tudors.
Lisa Hilton	Queens Consort: England’s Medieval Queens from Eleanor of Aquitaine to Elizabeth of York.
Erin Lawless	Forgotten Royal Women: The King and I
Dan Jones	The Plantagenets: The Warrior Kings and Queens Who Made England